This is riddled with specious 12-step dogma myths. To be clear, JBP is a sick man, but trying to view this through the lense of a nearly century old faith-healing dogma just doesnt work (and the 12 steps only work for 5-8 percent of people, as it is, despite the surivorship & selection bias that says otherwise.) The author wants JBP to work the steps-- they should just say that.
Aside from the fact that you didn't have a single 12-step myth to point to for us to discuss, you're also using the worst argument from people who aren't fans of 12-step programs, which is the success rate stat.
For one second, ask yourself how you'd get statistics for AA success rates. What would that involve? Surveying people? The AA group keeping data? Do you really think this is happening with an ANONYMOUS program?
I could continue to go on about this, but feel free to listen to my episode with Dr. Carl Fisher where we have a good laugh about this silly talking point that's easily debunked.
Next, you claim "the author wants JBP to work the steps". Not only is that a bad faith assumption, but I mention traditional therapy a couple times throughout. Why? Because I legitimately don't care. I even mention JBP working on himself without outside help.
I checked out that video you linked, and while I'm happy to discuss the "dry drunk myth", that video is just a straw man argument. The question was "Is the dry drunk real?" and he changed it to "Do you need AA to quit an addiction?"
Then, my favorite part about the video is the end when the interviewer asks "Why do people in AA push this myth?" and then he changes it to how the medical establishment needs to push this myth lmao. WHAT?!
Sorry if this came off rude, but after 10 years sober and people using bad arguments about AA, I'm just exhausted. Hopefully you learned something though. If you want to point to specific parts of the piece and have a discussion, let's do it. But coming in with the false premise that I think AA is the only way to get sober just isn't going to go well because it's not true.
Thank you for that. The statistics are skewed. One should look at the founders of AA for statistics instead of contemporary metrics. I have no idea what they are. What I do know is we are in the age of treatment centers and court-ordered attendance of AA meetings. How many people go to AA to fulfil a treatment center or court-ordered obligation? Undoubtedly there are many who are not real alcoholics or who have not destroyed their soul sufficiently to undertake the work needed for it's restoration. The book of Alcoholics Anonymous was very specific in 1939. This remains true today. From the foreword of the 1st edition: "We of Alcoholics Anonymous are more than one hundred men and women who have RECOVERED from a seemingly hopeless state of mind and body. To show other alcoholics PRECISELY how we have recovered is the main purpose of this book."
There are instructions. Take them or leave them. I've tried both white-knuckling (dry-drunk) and doing the work. The latter is fulfilling. The former leads to that hopeless state of mind and body. Eventually. Though we always have the option of picking up the simple kit of spiritual tools that this book lays at our feet and begin. At any point of our lives. Any year. Any month. Any day. Any hour. Any minute. Alcoholics Anonymous doesn't hold exclusive rights to spiritual tools and principles. It's just a way for many to see them that may not have otherwise.
The foreword goes on:
"For them (the suffering alcoholic), we hope these pages will prove so convincing that no further authentication will be necessary. We think this account of our experiences will help EVERYONE to better understand the alcoholic."
and later:
"We are not an organization in the conventional sense of the word. There are no fees or dues whatsoever. The ONLY REQUIREMENT for membership is an honest desire to stop drinking. We are not allied with any particular faith, sect or denomination, nor do we oppose anyone."
And finally, most importantly:
"We simply wish to be helpful to those who are afflicted."
That's it. We learn to be of service to others and that in turn helps us. As human beings. That's what helps us recover from our afflictions (addictions). The soul-searching occurs so that we can better help others who suffer in the same way.
Mr. Peterson seems to be on a soul-crushing adventure. I understand because I've been there. It's not a good place to be. He seems to have a fanbase and that's what makes it so dangerous.
Going to Russia for "treatment" seems very suspect and we may never know the full story behind that.
This is riddled with specious 12-step dogma myths. To be clear, JBP is a sick man, but trying to view this through the lense of a nearly century old faith-healing dogma just doesnt work (and the 12 steps only work for 5-8 percent of people, as it is, despite the surivorship & selection bias that says otherwise.) The author wants JBP to work the steps-- they should just say that.
Consider this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gep1nv3MS8w
People like the author, below, speak truth to the entrenched power of these pervasive myths, and their potential to harm and mislead.
https://medium.com/@freiheit/leaving-the-rooms-and-giving-up-my-seat-finding-the-space-where-i-am-truly-free-d9a48a19fcb7
Aside from the fact that you didn't have a single 12-step myth to point to for us to discuss, you're also using the worst argument from people who aren't fans of 12-step programs, which is the success rate stat.
For one second, ask yourself how you'd get statistics for AA success rates. What would that involve? Surveying people? The AA group keeping data? Do you really think this is happening with an ANONYMOUS program?
I could continue to go on about this, but feel free to listen to my episode with Dr. Carl Fisher where we have a good laugh about this silly talking point that's easily debunked.
Next, you claim "the author wants JBP to work the steps". Not only is that a bad faith assumption, but I mention traditional therapy a couple times throughout. Why? Because I legitimately don't care. I even mention JBP working on himself without outside help.
I checked out that video you linked, and while I'm happy to discuss the "dry drunk myth", that video is just a straw man argument. The question was "Is the dry drunk real?" and he changed it to "Do you need AA to quit an addiction?"
Then, my favorite part about the video is the end when the interviewer asks "Why do people in AA push this myth?" and then he changes it to how the medical establishment needs to push this myth lmao. WHAT?!
Sorry if this came off rude, but after 10 years sober and people using bad arguments about AA, I'm just exhausted. Hopefully you learned something though. If you want to point to specific parts of the piece and have a discussion, let's do it. But coming in with the false premise that I think AA is the only way to get sober just isn't going to go well because it's not true.
Good day, sir.
Thank you for that. The statistics are skewed. One should look at the founders of AA for statistics instead of contemporary metrics. I have no idea what they are. What I do know is we are in the age of treatment centers and court-ordered attendance of AA meetings. How many people go to AA to fulfil a treatment center or court-ordered obligation? Undoubtedly there are many who are not real alcoholics or who have not destroyed their soul sufficiently to undertake the work needed for it's restoration. The book of Alcoholics Anonymous was very specific in 1939. This remains true today. From the foreword of the 1st edition: "We of Alcoholics Anonymous are more than one hundred men and women who have RECOVERED from a seemingly hopeless state of mind and body. To show other alcoholics PRECISELY how we have recovered is the main purpose of this book."
There are instructions. Take them or leave them. I've tried both white-knuckling (dry-drunk) and doing the work. The latter is fulfilling. The former leads to that hopeless state of mind and body. Eventually. Though we always have the option of picking up the simple kit of spiritual tools that this book lays at our feet and begin. At any point of our lives. Any year. Any month. Any day. Any hour. Any minute. Alcoholics Anonymous doesn't hold exclusive rights to spiritual tools and principles. It's just a way for many to see them that may not have otherwise.
The foreword goes on:
"For them (the suffering alcoholic), we hope these pages will prove so convincing that no further authentication will be necessary. We think this account of our experiences will help EVERYONE to better understand the alcoholic."
and later:
"We are not an organization in the conventional sense of the word. There are no fees or dues whatsoever. The ONLY REQUIREMENT for membership is an honest desire to stop drinking. We are not allied with any particular faith, sect or denomination, nor do we oppose anyone."
And finally, most importantly:
"We simply wish to be helpful to those who are afflicted."
That's it. We learn to be of service to others and that in turn helps us. As human beings. That's what helps us recover from our afflictions (addictions). The soul-searching occurs so that we can better help others who suffer in the same way.
Mr. Peterson seems to be on a soul-crushing adventure. I understand because I've been there. It's not a good place to be. He seems to have a fanbase and that's what makes it so dangerous.
Going to Russia for "treatment" seems very suspect and we may never know the full story behind that.